UK Arabic Paper Interviews PKK Commander, Discusses Turkish Demands

Nov 05, 08:09 AM

Current Headlines: Text of report by London-based newspaper Al-Hayat website on 2 November

[Report by Hushink Usi in the Qandil Mountains (the Turkish- Iraqi border area): "Al-Hayat Met Him in Qandil Mountains; He Spoke of Dozens of Foreign Fighters in PKK Ranks; PKK Military Commander Bahoz Erdel: Ankara Antagonizing Us for Past 80 Years, Its Eight Captives in our Custody in Good Health, We Want Peaceful Solution Within a Democratic Turkey"]

He is a young Kurdish-Syrian who walked away from medical school and its laboratories some 20 years ago and headed north to help "consolidate the Kurdish people's historic friendship with their mountains" by running the battle there "against those who not only hate the colours of the Kurdish flag, but even ban the use of the letters "w" and "x" in the registration of Kurdish names in name databases because they are Kurdish letters that must be fought since they threaten Turkey's security and unity." He is Bahoz Erdel, commander of the People's Defence Forces (the military wing of the PKK), who gave Al-Hayat the following interview:

[Usi] Why did you step up your military operations at this particular time? Does it have to do with the results of the latest [Turkish] parliamentary elections that were held in July and ended in favour of the Justice and Development Party [AKP]?

[Erdel] It is true that military-style clashes have increased recently, and it is also true that the last elections had something to do with that, but it is not true that we were the ones who stepped up their operations. Following the parliamentary elections, [Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip] Erdogan's government declared its hostile policy towards the Kurdish people and gave the military a carte blanche to launch a huge war aimed at annihilating us. In other words, the Erdogan Government's first measure was to declare war on us. Naturally, this led to the escalation of the Turkish Army's campaigns against us, which in turn led to an increase in the clashes and confrontations between the army and our forces -which are committed to their legitimate right to self defence -that resulted in massive losses to the Turkish Army.

For the record, we declared a unilateral cease-fire on 1 October 2006 that we have not revoked despite the Turkish Army's attacks. We have always said that we favour the political option and peaceful dialogue as means of resolving our people's cause and granting them their freedom and human rights, proof being our declaration of unilateral cease-fires five consecutive times without the other side demonstrating any positive initiative in return.

[Usi] Some say that the results of the those election and the voting of broad segments of Kurds for the AKP translate into a Kurdish rejection of violence and a drop in your popularity in Kurdish areas at the cost of increasing AKP popularity, and some even argue that they prove the success of Erdogan's policies; what do you think?

[Erdel] The Kurdish people prefer the political solution and refuse the logic of violence and war; this is a fact that no two would disagree on. The Kurdish people have suffered more than any other people from war, forced displacement, mass murder, genocide, and deprivation from the most basic of human rights, such as speaking to their children in their own language. We consider ourselves a pioneer movement for this peace-loving people, so how can we be the party seeking war and more violence? We strive to find a democratic and peaceful solution to our cause within the framework of a democratic Turkey that respects the national rights of our Kurdish people.

As for the fact that Erdogan's party won a decent percentage of the votes in Kurdish areas, it is a product of the Kurdish people's efforts to find a peaceful solution. Erdogan presented himself as someone who recognizes the Kurdish cause and believes that past governments had wronged the Kurdish people; he promised, repeatedly, in statements he gave in Kurdish cities to resolve this cause and even spoke of his willingness to form a coalition government with the Kurdish party in parliament. All these promises and statements encouraged segments of the Kurdish masses to vote for him, meaning that the Kurdish support was prompted by this promise and nothing else. However, once the elections were over, Erdogan retracted all his statements and did the exact opposite, hence exposing the falsehood of his claims on the Kurdish cause. If new elections were held today, Erdogan's party would not get a quarter of the Kurdish votes it did.

[Usi] Do you not feel that your presence in the Qandil Mountains along the Turkish-Iraqi border puts the Kurdistan Regional Government in an embarrassing situation with both Turkey and the United States?

[Erdel] We are not only deployed in the Qandil Mountains; no, we are spread out across the entire mountainous border area between the two countries. We have been here for 25 years, since 1982 to be precise, back when we were still preparing for the armed struggle against Turkish authorities. The Turkish state's claims and propaganda that portray the governments in Arbil and Baghdad as having summoned us here serve only to pressure these two governments and force them to make some concessions to Turkey. We took no one's permission to come here, and we will not ask for anyone's permission to stay.

Our presence is not a source of embarrassment for the Kurdistan Regional Government or the Kurdish population in Iraq; on the contrary, our presence supports and strongly guarantees their protection. Our presence here is not linked to the Kurdistan Regional Government or Baghdad's government, but is contingent on the resolution of the Kurdish cause in Turkey.

[Usi] How do you view the American, European, and Kurdish-Iraqi rejection of Turkish threats? Is it a failure of Turkish foreign policy, and do you view it as a victory for you?

[Erdel] It is no doubt a failure of Turkish foreign policy, for it is an obsolete policy that is no longer in tune with global and regional developments and shifts in power balances. It is a conventional and failed policy that Turkey has been observing for 80 years now, and its main pillar is: Denying the Kurdish people and depriving them of the most basic of human rights. It is a policy of imposing the Turkish identity on the different ethnicities living within Turkey's borders. For one to say that "I am the happiest person on Earth because I am Turkish" would be a disgusting denial of the existence of other ethnicities. Turkish foreign policy lies within this context, and as can be expected, no longer enjoys the support of the major powers because it refuses to acknowledge international and regional developments.

Furthermore, the Kurdish people are different today and are no longer weak, divided, or fighting each other, and they are no longer a card in the hands of the region's countries in their regional game. On the contrary, Kurds today are grown in strength, fortitude, and unity, can influence power balances, and are active in international and regional politics. Today, no power sets its policies without carefully accounting for the Kurds. The peaceful resolution of the Kurdish cause serves stability in the region, but if the cause remains unresolved, then everyone's interests will suffer, and this is what no international party wants.

[Usi] Do you understand that you are up against the second largest army in the NATO and a strategic US ally in the Middle East? What are you counting on - US silence, or perhaps the Kurdish-Iraqi defiance of Turkish threats? What guarantees do you have that the US silence and Kurdish defiance will hold?

[Erdel] It was not yesterday that we launched our armed struggle and quest for freedom, no, our history of struggle and military activism dates back 25 years, and we have never counted on any party in sustaining this struggle -not on US silence or anything else. The only thing we rely on is the righteousness and justness just of our cause. Our main demand is that the Kurdish people be granted their human and national rights just like all the other people of this world, and that they be guaranteed their complete freedom without any changes to the current borders of the countries involved.

We draw our main strength from the unlimited support of our Kurdish people. In the past, the United States, the Baghdad government, and Kurdish-Iraqi forces directly supported the Turkish Army in it war against us, and still, Turkey failed to defeat us. Since then, we have only grown in strength and popularity across Kurdistan, so imagine what it will be like Turkey now that those forces no longer support it the way they did in the past.

[Usi] Is the Turkish Army going to invade Iraq's Kurdistan Region? And if yes, what would that mean, and how will you respond - will you target Turkish cities?

[Erdel] The Turkish military buildup along the Iraqi border supports the probability of Kurdistan's invasion, and keep in mind here that the Turkish Army already staged 25 major incursions into the region in the past. However, this incursion will be completely different because it will come up against a comprehensive popular resistance not only from our forces, but also from our people in Iraq's Kurdistan. It will also achieve national unity between the Kurdish people, and you already know that millions of Kurds live in Turkey's major cities and will not stand idle before such a development.

This will naturally create a lot of tension that will spread to the entire region, and it will be difficult to contain or predict the outcome of, with no Turkish city being spared under any circumstances. Our military response to any Turkish incursion will be very strong, and the Turkish Army's fate will not be any better than the Israeli Army's fate in its incursion into Lebanon in the summer of 2006.

[Usi] If the leaders of Iraq's Kurdistan Region ask you to leave Iraqi territories, will you comply?

[Erdel] We did not come here upon the request or by permission of anyone. Our presence here does not threaten Iraq's Kurdistan Region or any other party, and it is like I said, tied to the resolution of the Kurdish cause in the region. Our presence, or lack of it, is not decided by a request from anyone. The Turkish state asks the impossible of the Kurdish and Iraqi Governments when it demands that they arrest our leaders and hand them over. In its 25-year war against us inside its own territories, Turkey has been unable to arrest any of our field commanders, who were, and still are, operating deep inside Turkey, so how can it ask the Kurdish and Iraqi Governments to succeed where it failed? What Turkey is requesting from these two young governments is impossible.

[Usi] What if America joins the confrontation against you and supports the Turkish Army? What will your position be, and will you target US interests?

[Erdel] Opening the door to direct military confrontation with us will not serve US interests, but everyone knows that America supported, and continues to support, the Turkish Army militarily in its war against us. America was the main force behind the arrest of our leader, Abdullah Ocalan, and his transfer to Turkish custody in 1999, and it still considers our party a terrorist organization.

[Usi] Erdogan will be in Washington in the coming days; what do you expect from this visit, and what would you like to say to the Americans? Do you not think America's scales will be tipped in favour of the Turks?

[Erdel] This visit's agenda will no doubt be dominated by the issues of the [possible] incursion into Iraqi Kurdistan, the latest clashes, and the Armenian genocide bill that was endorsed by Congress' Foreign Relations Committee. We ask America to end its hostility towards our movement and to stop calling it terrorist, because maintaining this hostility will not serve its interests. To be hostile towards us is to be hostile towards the overwhelming majority of the Kurdish people. America's hostility will not benefit it and will instead harm it severely and aggravate the current instability in Iraq and the region. The United States must abandon its double-standards policy as well as its "good Kurd, bad Kurd" policy. The United States should propose a clear and radical solution to our cause that secures the Kurdish people's rights and guarantees stability in the Middle East, because without a solution to the Kurdish cause, the region's stability cannot be guaranteed at all.

[Usi] Why not give Erdogan another chance? He might have something that can pave the way to a peaceful solution for the Kurdish cause in Turkey.

[Erdel] For more than a decade now, we have been offering successive Turkish governments one golden opportunity after another, and we tried to give dialogue and democratic parties a chance to resolve our cause through peaceful means and in a manner that satisfies all sides. Not only did we offer opportunities, we also embodied our understanding of the democratic solution with a series of steps and important measures. We often demonstrated our good intentions in order to set the stage for democratic and peaceful action that would resolve the Kurdish cause. We gave Erdogan's government huge opportunities time and time again, the latest opportunity being the cease-fire we declared unilaterally -the same way we did back on 1 October 2006 -and which is still in place and has not been terminated despite the increase you have witnessed in the pace of the clashes.

Erdogan has been in power for five years, where was he during all that time? Why did he not capitalize on our good intentions and peaceful initiatives to find a just solution to the Kurdish cause? Why did he not take advantage of the latest truce we declared and initiate positive steps? Even worse, he did the exact opposite and officially declared war on us, allying himself with the military men and giving them unlimited powers in their filthy war on our Kurdish people, the latest example of that being the parliament's endorsement of a memo that allows the army to invade Iraqi.

It is no secret that this severity in Erdogan's policies increased with the last elections. All these indicators prove that Erdogan's government is a government of all-out war on the Kurdish people and has no interest in a democratic solution or peaceful dialogue. If Erdogan is indeed interested in a peaceful solution, then let him take the initiative and suspend the army's military campaigns against our forces; let him demonstrate good will in whichever appropriate way he chooses, because then, the clashes will definitely deescalate significantly, and this military escalation will no doubt subside.

[Usi] It has been said that your last operation against the Turkish Army, in which you captured eight of its soldiers, was launched from Iraqi territories; can you provide us with some details about the operation?

[Erdel] The Turkish Army was trying to conduct a military combing exercise using a limited number of soldiers who would advance a limited distance into Iraqi Kurdistan, meaning that it was a campaign that would set the stage for larger and broader campaigns. This particular campaign sought to assault some of our positions, but our forces acted quickly and dealt massive blows to the attacking forces, forcing them to retreat after suffering huge losses that amounted to more than 40 dead, a number of wounded, and eight prisoners, without any harm coming to our forces.

The Turkish Army and Government are trying to deceive the public opinion by understating their losses and fabricating imaginary numbers of PKK losses. This is what the Turkish media machine has been doing throughout the decades of Turkey's war against us, and unfortunately, the Turkish people are being tricked, and some Arab and international podiums believe the Turkish media's lies and fabrications.

[Usi] How is the health of the prisoners, and will you swap them for PKK prisoners in Turkish prisons? You said you will release them soon; why, is it a gesture of good will? And which party will receive the prisoners from you? Does the Kurdistan Regional Government have anything to do with their release?

[Erdel] The prisoners are in good health and are perfectly fine. One of them was lightly injured but our medical teams treated him. We are treating these prisoners humanely out of our humane cultural and ideological values. They are not being humiliated or abused, and their dignity remains unharmed. They are as comfortable as can be and in a very safe place. I wish to note here that we do not refuse to release them, and several parties are mediating in this matter so that we may reach an acceptable form and system of release. Our position will be positive, and we will facilitate this acceptable release as a gesture of good will on our part.

[Usi] Some claim there are foreign fighters among you -Turks, Arabs, Persians, Germans, Russians, and Armenians; how do you explain that?

[Erdel] It is true; there are indeed dozens of foreign fighters from different ethnicities among us, and many were martyred at different stages of the struggle for liberation while the rest continue to fight here in Kurdistan's mountains. There are many reasons that drive these strugglers to join our ranks, but the main reason is that we are not a conventional nationalist movement, but are a humane movement that seeks fraternal and peaceful coexistence between different people on bases of equality, freedom, justice, amity, and the pursuit of a better life for everyone regardless of their nationality, religion, ethnicity, or class. Our ideology, way of life, and humane struggle far from nationalist goals drew many free men from other ethnicities, and the best proof of that is that our party's first martyr was a Turk (Haqqi Qariri in 1977).

In addition to the nationalities you mentioned, some of our comrades are of Swiss, Azeri, Assyrian, and Kazak origins. This is proof that our cause is a just one, contrary to the pitiful attempts by some to distort it with all means possible.

[Usi] Should Turkey offer you a partial pardon, how would you respond? And how long do you plan on staying in these mountains?

[Erdel] Everyone must understand that our cause is not about a partial or general pardon by the Turkish state, and if it were a pardon that we seek, then we would not have taken to the mountains to start with. However, if the (general pardon) is offered as part of a comprehensive project to politically resolve our cause and is presented as a first step, then we will consider it. In other words, the issue is not about how to get our fighters down from the mountains and back to their homes, for we have no such problem and are not eager to leave these mountains -we are not living in other countries where we would feel alienated, no, we are living and struggling freely in our beautiful mountains.

I repeat: We are here because there is a Kurdish cause; because a historic and deep-rooted people are being deprived of their most basic human rights; and because the Turkish Army and security forces launch daily attacks on these people. More than 5,000 villages were emptied of their residents, and hundreds of thousands were forced to migrate to large cities, and the identity of an entire people is being completely denied, and so on and so forth. The issue of our descent from the mountains is closely linked to the resolution of this cause.

[Usi] In Turkey, nationalistic and racist mobilization against the Kurds, both politically and in the media, are gaining momentum; in view of this growing tension, are there any signs of a peaceful initiative looming in the horizon? Have neutral European parties tried to mediate between you and the Turks?

[Erdel] Erdogan's government and the Turkish Army are primarily responsible for this mobilization of the Turkish public. The patriotic spirit of the masses is being manipulated by the media and the official statements of Turkey's rulers. Erdogan himself said that the nationalistic mobilization and demagogic demonstrations are the Turkish public's reaction, and that the people are right to express their opinions and engage in some chauvinistic and even fascist practices against Kurdish citizens. This chauvinistic mobilization will deepen the void between Kurdish masses and the state, and between Kurds and Turks. It will increase, and it could lead to a permanent rift and complete separation between the two peoples.

Europe continues to be silent towards Turkey's violation of all international and European customs and conventions. It is the European Union's responsibility to find the adequate solution to the Kurdish cause and contain this growing chauvinistic trend in Turkey, because this chauvinism will also hurt Europe, which will be not be safe from it repercussions. Some chauvinistic parties attacked Kurdish democratic institutes in European countries, and this proves that the chauvinism threat is knocking on Europe's doors, and that Europe must play a positive role in peacefully resolving the cause. Europe must abandon its indifference and apathy towards the latest dangerous developments in Turkey.

[Usi] Are you willing to put your weapons on the negotiations table? What do you want from Turkey, Iraq's Kurdistan Region, Europe, and America?

[Erdel] We are fully confident that the only way to resolve the Kurdish cause is political and peaceful dialogue. Our armed activism is not a product of a love for war, but serves to defend our existence and our people's stolen rights. Turkey must abandon its mentality of denial and attempted genocide, and it must understand that the days of Atilla and the Janissary [an elite Ottoman Empire infantry unit] mentality are long gone. It must acknowledge the Kurdish people's identity. The weapons issue is closely tied to the resolution of the Kurdish cause, but if the Turkish state continues, and it is continuing anyway, to deal with the Kurdish cause through security channels and portray its actions as a counterterrorism effort, hence allowing itself to do anything it wants in this regards, then we will have no choice but to resist on all fronts.

We have fought so far, and we will continue to do so until we achieve our goals of freedom and legitimate Kurdish rights. We also ask all regional and international powers and parties to contribute positively to a peaceful solution instead of fuelling the flames of war and pushing Turkey to its doom.

[Usi] Do you have anything to say to the Turkish people?

[Erdel] The Turkish state has been fighting the Kurdish people ever since the establishment of the Ataturk [Turkey's founder] republic and has been fighting our movement for more than a quarter of a century without reaping anything but destruction. Turkey's rulers exhausted the country's resources and drowned it in foreign debt; they drove its economy to rock bottom and fooled the Turkish masses with glistening patriotic slogans like "the unity of the homeland and the flag, and the Turkish race's supremacy;" and they turned the Turkish people into fuel for this lost and filthy war. Nationalistic sentiments have harmed the Turkish people more than anything else.

Modern history tells us that it was the Unity and Progress Committee that doomed the Ottoman Empire to hell, and now there are the new unionists in turkey, and they will do exactly what Talat, Enver, and Djemal [the Three Pashas who ruled the Ottoman Empire prior to its fall in WWI] did. Turkey's insistence on avoiding a solution and maintaining the war will place it in a situation far worse than that of Iraq.

We love and respect the Turkish people and we share a common history. We do not wish them any harm and therefore insist on the need to achieve a democratic and peaceful solution for the Kurdish cause within the framework of the Turkish republic and brotherly coexistence. We hope the Turkish people stand against the war the way the American people stood against their country's wars in Vietnam and Iraq.

Originally published by Al-Hayat website, London, in Arabic 2 Nov 07.

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